DIY submission of accounts to companies house?

[zorba11]

My main business has been going for seven years now, I do the bookkeeping, VAT, P35 myself, but my account does the submission of accounts to companies house for me, for about 700+VAT. I'm ok with that as there are a significant number of transactions.

However, we are kicking off a company which will have very simple accounts in its first year. A few sales, all to same client, for say £12,000, and a few purchases, all to same supplier, for say £10,000. Oh and one or two expenses - say £2000.

No employees, no dividends, no retained profit.

As the co. will not be making a profit, and the books seem easy, I'm thinking about going DIY wrt. submission of accounts, as theres no way I can justify spending another 700 + VAT (which we aren't even registered for!!). Then when the business starts doing better and things get more complex, I'd bring in the professionals.

Also if the business has a dead year, with no transactions, then I hopefully will be able to submit DIY accounts (as I know I won't be able to submit DCA anymore).

Any comments, any pitfalls?

cheers

[wood1e]

You can't sue yourselve, if something goes wrong.

And even if you are not registered for VAT, suppliers maybe and will legally have to charge you VAT even if you are not registered.

Find another accountant?

For simple accounts return it is straight forward so completing yourself is straight forward.

We complete our own and send off.

[James Smith]

"any pitfalls?"

Several thousand, but probably only a few of which apply.

One potential one is VAT groups. You can’t have one company that is VAT registered and one that is not if they are both in the same VAT group, that is to say under common control that is to say you or the same group of people own both companies.

If your business structure is so complex you need two limited companies rather than structuring it through one, I imagine you need (and hopefully have had) some pretty detailed technical advice.

No idea why you think its DIY territory. Still, more work for your accountant in the end I imagine. Always a lot more money in sorting out messes than doing things right first time!

[Paul Norman]

Speaking as a non accountant, but a person with a number of businesses, and therefore paying more than average in accountant's fees, the fit falls start and end with this:

If you make an innocent mistake, you will get fined. And hounded.

I pay my accountant for peace of mind.

[zorba11]

You can't sue yourselve, if something goes wrong.

And even if you are not registered for VAT, suppliers maybe and will legally have to charge you VAT even if you are not registered.

Find another accountant?

For simple accounts return it is straight forward so completing yourself is straight forward.

We complete our own and send off.

will have to VAT reg if start using suppliers in anger i guess

what should an accountant charge for dead simple accounts like this (ie just submission to cos. house, me doing ALL the rest = bookkeeping, VAT, there isn't much more actually :-)

£200?

[zorba11]

"any pitfalls?"

Several thousand, but probably only a few of which apply.

One potential one is VAT groups. You can’t have one company that is VAT registered and one that is not if they are both in the same VAT group, that is to say under common control that is to say you or the same group of people own both companies.

If your business structure is so complex you need two limited companies rather than structuring it through one, I imagine you need (and hopefully have had) some pretty detailed technical advice.

No idea why you think its DIY territory. Still, more work for your accountant in the end I imagine. Always a lot more money in sorting out messes than doing things right first time!

Ah, never heard of VAT groups till now - that'd mean i'd have to register straight away as the other company is reged, and i (personally, not via holding company) own them both. When do I have to VAT reg the new one - when i start trading? or is there a grace period like a year?
or should I have reged it right from the start? (eek!)

Reason is all down to insurance. Main company is recruitment, but we've got clients trying to get us to sign up to contracts that are essentiallly for IT consultancy (i.e. take full responsibility for the work of the person we place) and our recruitment insurance wont cover that. We need to get insured as an IT consultant. Then you're into 2x insurance policies on the one company, for the same/similar thing (e.g. PI), and pitfall of neither paying out because of presence of the other (standard waiver in insurance policies). So I was advised to do any of the IT consultancy work under a seperate entity.

Why consider DIY? Well, for seven years now I've been sending P&L etc over the accountant and they've usually left it untouched and bound it and sent to companies house - all for £700. Its the most expensive binding service i've ever come across...
So how much less complex will it be for a simple company like i described above?

[zorba11]

Speaking as a non accountant, but a person with a number of businesses, and therefore paying more than average in accountant's fees, the fit falls start and end with this:

If you make an innocent mistake, you will get fined. And hounded.

I pay my accountant for peace of mind.

good points, worth considering.
If can get accountant to do this for a decent fee (reflecting the amount of work involved) then will go for it, otherwise, DIY !!

again, any suggestions as to fee?

[James Smith]

Zorba,

Must admit its not ALWAYS the case its in the same VAT group so slightly misleading post at the top, but it is normally.

In your case its both recruitment, so its almost certainly the same group, and would be from the date of inception. It would also affect the corporation tax if your profit exceeds £150k on the main business.

I cant speak for your accountants, but i hope they do a lot more than "bind it and send to companies house". If they dont, then they are quite frankly a waste of space. They should be advising you on these sorts of issues, and before you do it. The cost for a small set would of course be a lot less than for a big set, but why the hell ask us? Ask your accountant!

NB not touting for work. Got too much as it is right now. Only posting as I am getting very bored with self assessment at the moment!

Regards,

[Paul Norman]

good points, worth considering.
If can get accountant to do this for a decent fee (reflecting the amount of work involved) then will go for it, otherwise, DIY !!

again, any suggestions as to fee?

I am not sure what the fee for this should be, as all my submissions are slightly more involved. My accountant keeps me well informed, makes my accounts legal honest and decent, advises me on tax, and stops me falling out with the tax office and companies house.

I believe it is good value, plus I can phone him endlessly with pathetic questions and he is polite!

[James Smith]

and he is polite!

Tell its not me then