Market Research - DIY or Agency?

[Indizine]

Skeeter, you just dont choose your words carefully. You dont think "how does what I write, come over when its read?".

"take your money" sounded a tad unprofessional when you consider they will be reading it - you're not telling a mate down the pub after all. You would uually say, "they would probably be happy to take you on". Sounds a lot nicer dont you think?

[skeeter]

Skeeter, you just dont choose your words carefully.

I see what you mean.

You dont think "how does what I write, come over when its read?".

I did. I thought it perfectly reasonable at the time. Thank You for pointing it out...I am guessing what you mean.

"take your money" sounded a tad unprofessional when you consider they will be reading it

It is not. But I can see what you were thinking...

...it sounds unprofessional from a white collar position. Yes. Also from a desk job. Also from middle management position.

Cashflow. Flow goes out, Take comes in. "Takings", or "What we took", "take your money". Not "take it and run". Taking money is a skill. A basic fundametnal skill.

I am still vexed. I think the issue is, people here probably do presnetation of invoice. My customers tend to be businesses of all kinds...many handle takings. The biggest question is always, "what did you take today/this week/this month"? Then > Why the fluctuation...do we need to do something?

Again, the forum life still puzzles me...I am getting there slowly. This is what I mean when I first joined and said forums are weird. Perhaps you get me a little better now. I've done a few restaurants, supplier to a market, loads of shops, retail places and all sorts of crazy stuff.

I had a call yesterday from a customer because takings are down. This is the lingo. What can I say. I still haven't worked out the exact demographics of forum life...my original suspicion was that everybody is white-collar, internet based, or giving it a go doing some small B2B / B2C thing, with a few established companies. But I have seen traders on here...a small number.

I know what you mean...I think after years of doing grass roots consultancy with people, I probably need to follow someone sensible like you Indi. But in saying that, it moves away from a large portion of the people I deal with. 95% of my work is remote. I need a finely tuned ear to be able to speak the same language as my customer.

Despite the odd bark here and there, you have given me a solid grounding one way or the other. I use the word grounding purposefully.

I do listen you know.

As for Katherine, if she finds this thread...I hope it makes sense.

[marketing difference]

It has to be DIY unless your starting up on multi-million pound scale. You need to personally understand the market that you are operating in.

If you are not confident and even if you are confident I would suggest seeking some professional marketing input not from a market research business, but from a marketing professional specialising in small and new businesses. This will save you a lot of money as they will be quickly able to tell you if your business idea is viable, will help you refine your proposition and will reduce your promotional spend.

Again, I struggle with forums et al. They make no sense. People seem to want to put the boot in over and above delivering solutions, getting things done and turning things round.

I continue to struggle.

Agree, the more sensible the advice offered the harder the boot comes in.

[Indizine]

well tell you what, lets not discuss what you write anymore and simply insist that if people do not like what you writem they use the report post function and we will take a formal view. If nothing is reported, they will deal with you direct via a PM.

[skeeter]

Hi Indi,

Please read this...it is not so boring...probably worth a read.

seems, if I engage, your forum grows by 100 posts extra posts in a day. If there were 10 like me, you wouldn't cope. The answer is there are 1,000s like me, they just don't use forums...the consensus is stay away..!!

Most people are just busy doing the do. I am here to do marketing...namely research...what I do is fine, it is not a waste of time at all. I will answer questions abruptly, cos I don't really have the time but I will make it (silly a 40min conversation is normally the answer)...on here it take 5 days.

Why? I've actually been given useful information after I've picked out the slander. Having said that, people cut in and interupt the discussion, take it away from the point then naturally, you will ruin the threads.

The biggest culpret for this seems to be mods. There are very few threads that don't contain a mod taking it off topic.


I like you Indi. How you Mod is nothing for me to comment on. I would prefer the odd PM pushing me back on track...instead of public humiliation.

As for public humiliation, why on earth do you think I am here as me AKA skeeter...and am not here using a company name...I did take advice before coming. By now, you would quite honestly have crushed my reputation, one that serves me well within circles.

As an individual I can argue. As a company man, I can't. I need to argue, to do my research - argue in the sense of debate. The reason I use Skeeter not my name or business name. I can register again as a company...you will see a different side.

I wouldn't let a customer of mine near this place...I would like to.
I wouldn't let an associate of mine near this place...I would like to.

Just so you know (as a Mod - meaning you et al), my comments are positive, pushing people towards the right direction. Even if I do use unfamiliar expressions. And a style which is unusual.

Starting a biz is difficult. Knowing what to do is difficult. Experience is experience. I can't open up too much...I could get sued. Most things a private and confidential, let alone a basic sense of ethics.

If people waide in. You just push people away.

Put it another way...if you (the forum) want to slander (i.e. allow it), set the tone and everyone will follow. I think Mods should curbe the "moaning" and "slagging off" from members...and set by example. And also try and remove humiliation, not add to it.

Yesterday foul language was mentioned...I was following suit, copying the language I'd read. Your joke about "nobody complaining"...no but everybody is watching..!!!

I think this forum has some good strong people on it. That is why I joined. These are my thoughts.

[LOS Design UK]

Having thought about a reply long and hard to this topic...I would sum up my thinking as

it depends on the project in hand.

If the project was likely to involve high-end sales value I would look at outsourcing.

It it was a project that was based around a home skill, maybe do that myself.

However, I am a BIG FAN of getting it on the market early. The longer you research, the greater the risk of Joe Comp jumping into your spot. So...there is my stance.

Discuss...

Regards
Daren

[skeeter]

However, I am a BIG FAN of getting it on the market early.

I call this first move advantage. It gives you competitive edge.

The longer you research, the greater the risk of Joe Comp jumping into your spot.

I call this copy catting...but usually the follower to the market gets the upperhand.

Competitive advantage means, it doesn't matter which way you can always win. Know your territory. Winning is quite literally sales and marketing.

The debate continues...but it all rests on marketing.

[marketing difference]

Sometimes standing on the sidelines or copycatting can reap dividends for businesses. It give you chance to see where others fall flat and thereby refine your proposition. The others will have done the hard work opening up the market to the new idea.

As an example Apple didn't invent the MP3 player, they just put it together in a more compelling proposition the I-pod.

[LOS Design UK]

Sometimes standing on the sidelines or copycatting can reap dividends for businesses. It give you chance to see where others fall flat and thereby refine your proposition. The others will have done the hard work opening up the market to the new idea.

As an example Apple didn't invent the MP3 player, they just put it together in a more compelling proposition the I-pod.

See what others are doing and do it better...an ethos that is always worth following if you have the skills.

Could not agree more

[skeeter]

Yes.

If any of you are interested....

"Competitive Advantage" is what you need to read up on.

Or

"Second mover advantage"

Very few people actually do a first mover advantage...I have not seen many. Most entrepreneurs do a second move of one degree or another.

As for first mover, they are hard work...nobody believes it and everybody thinks it's too new. Betamax is the obvious. I have done a few first movers and they are tough...real tough. But naturally if you like an uphill struggle, then first move is where it is all at. RedEvo refers to this as BusyFool. I research this area. It is where marketing is likely to fail...it is under the biggest pressure.

But generally safety says stay in the wings and be ready to pounce.

I believe most things are some porphing of the last and therefore, everybody is doing a second move...hence research is feasible and positioning feasible too. So many get it wrong. Learning from failure is a big area. Failure is subjective, even on big success I still like to find the failings...I'm an analyst.

The biggest issue is not the mechanics, this can be dropped in....it's the person behind the business and whether they are prepared for being hit by a bouble decker bus when it comes.

Also...my money (although I do not gamble) is always on the "snail" or the "tortoise". I don't like cheaters, they move too quickly, don't prepare the approach and generally miss the prey. Hence promotion side of marketing is not my cup of tea.

But, it is naturally a necessary evil. One I don't care for, especially if promotion is based on price. As Los says who wants to be busy working for scratch.