Copenhagen climate change summit

[AccountingBasics]

Punched - I agree with you on some things, the shipping is a big problem, they are using the cheapest oil that nobody else can use. The way the world works today with imports and exports products need to be shipped all around the world. If they start using cleaner fuels the cost of shipping will increase and so will the cost of the goods. The other problem is if the ships start using cleaner oil, the oil supplies will be used up quicker.

Some reports state that peak oil will happen by 2030. This will mean that not only will there be limited supplies, but also the cost of the oil will be very high. This is one of the reasons we need to look at alternative transport now.

In terms of reducing our own level of CO2, in our house we do what we can, what we can afford to do and also things that will save us money. We have changed most of our light bulbs. We have started to turn off our stand by items. We own an electric car and are going to be leasing a second one and we recycle as much as we can. There is still more that we would like to do as a family, but we will only do it when funds are available and save us money.

Each little bit that we do, does reduce our CO2 and it has been proven that there is a link with CO2 and Global warming. Some of the devolping countries are producing too much CO2 and steps need to be taken to reduce their levels. China has very high CO2, but is also producing many of the products and parts which we use.

These are my views, having spent many hours researching, watching news items and from our own experience. I know everyone has different views about the topic, which I respect.

[Punched]

Great reply, with me, i don't bother saving any CO2 emmissions from my house, Some guy at the university of essex has actually worked out that if every single family cut their CO2 emmisions by the most they could for a whole year, then that would only account for 0.01% of the worlds total co2 emmisions.

Nothing that we do in this country will have any effect on a global scale unless China , The US, Russia and India get their finger out.

The fact with the large ships, yes it ok to let them destroy the earth, otherwise the price of goods will go up???

So its better to have climate change, cheaper goods and green taxes galore, all becuase the shipping companys are raking in billions each year burning this crap fuel.

Its never ever going to work by trying to make the guy in the street feel guilty, It the individuals that run the countries that have to make a stand and whilst they don't the earth will suffer, for sure, we as citizens of the UK cannot make one iota of a diffence dispite what we are lead to believe.

You watch in the next few months, here in the UK there will me loads of new green taxes to pay for Browns idiotic 1.5 billion giveaway of taxpayers money, He has to do it like that because we're already owing 800 billion of national debt.

Climate change, and the green issue is just another smokescreen to introduce more taxes in the UK. Whatever money we make in the UK we seem to be keen to give it away, we need to stop all this and re invest back in the UK.

Why for example are we still giving India 500 million pounds worth of aid every year, they must be rolling in it, they've just started their own space programe?? No thats one of the countries that just don't give a hoot about climate change

Its almost like a conspiracy to make the UK into a third world country, and to think 100 years ago we had an empire

[iaynm]

Generally good ideas in this thread, I feel. Greenwashing is everywhere, from top politicians spinning out new words for old habits, to the hippy protesters banging on upturned buckets in Leicester Square. No one is really doing anything to better the environment at all.

(Not only that, but the vast majority of people are scientifically illiterate and I wonder how they actually came to form an opinion about these kinds of issues.)

[Punched]

Not only that, but the vast majority of people are scientifically illiterate and I wonder how they actually came to form an opinion about these kinds of issues.

Because Deep down its not about the global issue but the creation of new taxes

[iaynm]

Because Deep down its not about the global issue but the creation of new taxes

Well indeed, but I also mean all the "normal people" who have never looked at the evidence, for whatever theory, and who basically couldn't understand it anyway. At some point, they have been convinced by some kind of advertising ("propaganda" has negative connotations) or spokesperson that a certain thing is happening for a certain reason. This has occurred through attractive wording and pretty pictures, and not through critical evaluation of the evidence.
Of course, practically, most people can't really be looking into things themselves in any great detail, but I wonder if perhaps they should then reserve their opinions and not shout too loudly about them.
If one person studies something and comes to a certain conclusion, and then tells 100 lay-people about it, you now have 101 people who believe that thing. But really only one of those people are of any relevance - the original researcher. That 100 others "believe" it should add no weight to the argument.

This applies not just to issues surrounding global warming but to all manner of things, such as various medical/health ideas, for example.


As a separate point - just to clarify - I feel that many environmental issues are very pressing indeed. Others I frankly don't know much about, and I try to remain relatively impartial. Whether global warming is happening, and whether it can be accurately described as anthropogenic, is a hugely complex issue and 99.9% of people with an opinion about it can be disregarded, frankly.

EDIT: and yes, then there's the fact that either way, nothing useful is being done. Basically the whole thing is a mess, haha.

[Paul Norman]

For me, the Copenhagen meeting is a meeting of well meaning, but uninformed people. Apart from the almost grotesque extravagance of the gathering, this is essentially about using the green issues to tax more.

This, in spite of the fact that taxing people does not make them greener. My car tax is massively up year on year. But I keep the car. Not because I dont care, but because I like having the car. Changing to a smaller car would have less impact than you could measure. Using the car less, probably achieves more.

You can move throughout the various aspects of environmental issues, and you see mostly a lack of joined up thinking and a one dimensional approach.

Tinkering with the edges is what is happening. Whilst not being prepared to take the risks, economically and politically, of really doing anything of substance.

The biggest point for me is this, though. Seeing our leaders strutting their stuff arrogantly on the world stage as though we were a super power..guys...get real. We are a small, non-industrial island off the north coast of Europe.

[Barry]

Making the general population aware and responsible for their own environmental impact can only be a good thing.

Yes, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference if we all personally cut back on our own emissions and usage of natural resources as we are small fry compared to larger industries. - But in the back of my mind I think - these large industries only exist cos us little people want to buy the goods or consume the energy or make use of the services.

I think that making the 'general public' more aware will only lead to larger amounts of consumers wanting their suppiers to stick to the same ethics as they are. Thus the 'society' we live in has higher leverage to get the big boys to clean up.

Power sometimes does come from the people and people are waking up.

What we need to get rid of now is the smoke screen before it gets to thick ie. all the 'I am a carbon neutral company' bollocks - all this buying offsets. Its a good idea in theory but not in practice - we need to see what companies are producing as a direct result of their undertakings so we can make decisions on where and who to buy off.

Ta

Baz

[Punched]

Watch out, theres Rumours that Tony Blair's turning up tommorrow.

That can only mean one thing.....................

Theres money to be made at these meetings

On a lighter note, what does this guy do that give him the right to meet up with these world leaders? Its not as if he's representing the UK anymore???

[Punched]

Oh well Brown turn up in his own Jet, Prince Charles did the same, These are the people that rant about climate change that basically take the ****.

Brown has now said that he'll make sure that the UK carbon footprint is down 42% by 2020.

10 times as much as the USA, What planet is this idiot on??

Theres also talk of increasing fuel, Gas and Electric,to pay for his crackpot ideas, what exactly is this idiot trying to prove, We're basically bankrupt as a country and here he is showing off we'll do more than anyone else etc..

Whilst all this is going on, China the worlds biggist Carbon footprint, has been told it can carry on??

Just proves to me, its not about saving the world but the creation of new Green Taxes. If it was about sving the world, what are people turning up in the most un-green fashion??

Even blair been doing his bit and we know when he lies, his lips move

[Punched]

Copenhagen was never about the planet. ~ It was always about power and money.

The politicians may not have a deal, but plenty of people are going to get rich through the dodgy carbon trading scheme and 'alternative technology', which are worth trillions.

If Del Boy was around today, he'd have a lock-up full of windmills and he would be running Trotter's Independent Carbon Traders. This time next year, we'll be trillionaires.

and for the average man in the street?? we've just poured billions of taxpayers money down the EU Drain - AGAIN!!!