[saracen]

I had to laugh my $ss off today, apparently when Subway instructed Chrysties and other tradespeople to carry out their work on the Hawick shop a few months back, which was completed by some of the workies, subway never asked the council for permission to carry out the work ! DOH!

The Council have dug their heels in and will not budge to accommodate them - certainly not in the intermin anyway.

That just reinforces what is going around the town about Subway - begins with an "S" and ends with a "E".

I want them to come to the town so i can watch them quickly leave when they realise there is no trade ! A well established bakers has turned their lights off for the last time just recently, i hear a long established cafe is struggling. Subway charge how much for their products ? plus they put their prices up 10% recently !

This is a dead duck.

In the last 4 months i've saw 2 food outlets open and close !

£1.99 for a 6 inch sub ? My foot long is priced less than that. lmao

[Eagle]

Good stuff. I've never used a Subway but it's good to know that the small business is 'winning'.

[saracen]

Subway signed the lease 2 days back

how anyone could spend 130k to see it go down the drain beats me.

The beanscene came to the town less than 12 months back with no due dilligence just like subway. The rumour from a very reliable source is this outlet is giving the group "their biggest headache" No wonder, it's practicaly dead every day. I can see it from my premises. No locals use it as it's way to dear, only business people coming into the town use it and believe me - that aint many.

When setting up a franchise like subway, homework must consist of more than looking at the geographical area on a map and population. The high street is bare of customers for any trades - why ? Cause the hub of the Borders is Galashiels and thats where most businesses and shoppers are going, even a trip to Edinburgh is "no hassle" to Borders people.

Said it before and will reiterate it again - Subway is a dead duck in this town

[Draugen]

Hello all! I came accross this thead whilst Googling print suppliers believe it or not! I feel this may become a long post, so please bear with me!

I'm a Subway franchisee in the North of England and have read this thread with interest. I'm not familiar with the town of Harwick, so I can't comment on whether or not it is a viable location, I can offer some reasoning behind why Subway would wish to open there however. There are also one or two other points I'd like to comment on.

I feel it's somewhat unfair to assume that the franchisee of this store has not done their homework. Subway have made mistakes, as all brands of our size have, but they happen rarely and in the current climate, even our development agents are being very careful over the locations currently being opened. Perhaps the Subway franchisee has spotted a market you haven't? Don't forget, Subway and BE do not compete as directly as some might imagine (as mentioned earlier in this thread), a franchisee with a good knowledge of the brand may have seen opportunities not relevant to the likes of BE.

Everytime Subway opens in an area without a lot of money, there are naysayers. The fact is though, we often thrive in these locations. I own a store in one of the most deprived areas in the country, and it does well. When the product is as good as I believe ours is, people will pay for it. Our target demographic will also travel some quite considerable distances to eat at our stores!

In terms of who might wish to open in a location such as this, it sounds as though it is likely to be a multi-unit owner, possibly even a development agent. When you own a number of stores, it becomes viable to open low-profit stores and if you have a significant number of units, it is viable to "test" stores in certain areas. Of course, it costs money to open, but if the store fails, the costs of closing it and moving the fittings and equipment elsewhere are fairly minimal. That's a risk many are willing to take.

I know it's a common criticism of Subway that they make money regardless of whether or not franchisees are in profit, but at the same time, it is not in their interests to open stores that close down a few months later. Subway have made mistakes in the past, but we genuinely do not open stores where are not likely to make money.

Just a few things I'd like to comment on:

My brother was assistant manager of a Subway in Glasgow, if you'd heard the horror stories he told me about food management and hygiene you just wouldn't buy anything from Subway!

If your brother's stories are true, then that is an isolated and very badly run store. Subway's standards of hygiene and cleanliness are higher than most of our competitors and each store is evaluated on a monthly, and in some cases two-weekly basis to ensure these standards are kept. I have never have cause to doubt the hygiene in any Subway store and that includes my days as a customer before becoming a franchisee!

Subway requires a huge footfall

Of course, footfall is essential but to describe the requirement as "huge" is an exaggeration. The average spend in Subway is very high for our industry, so we do not require the customer numbers some might imagine.

He is tied to a menu and a price structure.

Franchisees are not tied into a pricing structure, we are free to charge any price we like for our products.

I cant wait to see subway compete with my business and with the local bakers, most who have been established for many many years in the Town.

I feel you're underestimating the power of the brand a bit here. I have never known Subway to struggle against local businesses. Of course, there's competition between them, but I have only ever seen evidence that we co-exist with them to the benefit of both parties. I have a store with three small sandwich shops and a Greggs in the immediate area, we all seem to do just fine. People come to us not because they want a sandwich, but because they want a Subway sandwich. If price was the only factor, Greggs would have buried us ages ago!

franchisee's pay subway 8 pc loyalty plus 4.5pc advertising fee

The 8% royalty is correct, and this is paid direct to Subway. The advertising contribution is not paid to Subway however, this is paid into a franchisee administered advertising fund. In my region we pay 5% rather than the 4.5% in most territories and I personally feel the money is well spent.

Subway emphasises they have a good product. However, BRAKES supply the majority of their products.

Brakes did not supply Subway's products, they merely delivered them. We actually parted ways fairly recently and our distribution contract switched to 3663 last week. Both Brakes and 3663 are merely distributors, our products and ingredients are sourced elsewhere. (Subway's meat in the UK and Ireland is manufactured and supplied by Dawn Farm Foods, if you're interested)

here link to the shop they are taking, looking at the price of the rent then add a lot more for rates, oh dear - thats a lot of money.
What the rent alone is costing per annum, that equates to 3 years worth of rent AND rates for my shop

Don't forget Subway has a lot of bargaining power when it comes to leasing retail property. The published rent is rarely what the franchisee will actually be paying. Substantial rent free periods are frequently found in our leases also.

I had to laugh my $ss off today, apparently when Subway instructed Chrysties and other tradespeople to carry out their work on the Hawick shop a few months back, which was completed by some of the workies, subway never asked the council for permission to carry out the work ! DOH

They shouldn't need permission to carry it out! Subway stores all require A1 consent, so we can effectively site ourselves anywhere! It's only external features in conservation areas, signage and issues with listed buildings that should pose any barriers. Personally, I have never come accross a Subway store that has had to suspend construction due to planning issues.

[IP2]

They shouldn't need permission to carry it out! Subway stores all require A1 consent, so we can effectively site ourselves anywhere! It's only external features in conservation areas, signage and issues with listed buildings that should pose any barriers. Personally, I have never come accross a Subway store that has had to suspend construction due to planning issues.

Has the planning law changed that required takeaways to have A3/A5 planning? Or does Subway somehow not count as a takeaway? - Just curious.

[saracen]

Draugen - Everytime Subway opens in an area without a lot of money, there are naysayers. The fact is though, we often thrive in these locations. I own a store in one of the most deprived areas in the country, and it does well. When the product is as good as I believe ours is, people will pay for it. Our target demographic will also travel some quite considerable distances to eat at our stores!

!! And you know it. Thats the most unrealistic statement i've ever heard in my life.

Subway will not survive in the Borders Town. People of the borders will not pay over the odds for products that they can purchase else where at a fraction of the price and better quality. The Beanscene is on parr with subway prices - which company is on the brink of closure -oh, that will be the Beanscene.

If you own a store in one of the most deprived areas - name the area. Additionally lets see your figures of turnover and profit. You obviously cant tell people on this thread how well your doing without providing evidence.

[boxby]

Originally Posted by saracen

Draugen - Everytime Subway opens in an area without a lot of money, there are naysayers. The fact is though, we often thrive in these locations. I own a store in one of the most deprived areas in the country, and it does well. When the product is as good as I believe ours is, people will pay for it. Our target demographic will also travel some quite considerable distances to eat at our stores!

OK, I have a 6 year old daughter who loves the subways sandwich. And when we go down south the location of Gretna Village does make for quite a good lunch stop. However, if there wasn't a playpark (and a couple of handbag shops!) we wouldn't stop specifically for the sandwiches.

The point Saracen is making is that the geography of the areas that subway is moving into, for example Hawick & Girvan, just doesn't make sense. The nearest towns to girvan is Ayr at 20 miles away (with 3 subways) and Stranraer at 30 miles away.

Who in their right mind is going to drive a round trip of 50 miles ish for a sandwich. I could understand it maybe if they'd have chosen a location nearer the secondary school, and on the road that the irish ferry traffic use. But they didn't.

Asda opened up their smallest supermarket in the whole wide world here in Girvan. The smallest walmart store, anywhere! Does that sound like a town that can support a subway?

[saracen]

Agree with Boxby. No one will travel out of town for subway food.
Lets take it into perspective of what subway actually offer.

1. 6 inch baguette - sub of the day, if you dont like a sub of the day, what is the actual price of a half baguette with a filling of your choice. How many main fillings is a person allowed?

2. How much do subway charge for a foot long ? How many fillings is someone allowed.

example - customer wants corrie chicken, red onion, bacon, mozz cheese, cucumber, tomato and lettuce. How much for that ?

Or - customers wants a foot long in 2 halves, first half is as above, second will be simliar with 2 or 3 main fillings with salads. How much does subway charge ?

Be truthful now becasue i know people residing in Hawick read this thread and they want to know.

How much do subway charge for paninis, baked potaoes, soup, flame grilled burgers, double decker filled rolls ( hot food in rolls such as lorne sausage, bacon, haggis, black pudding )

How much will subway charge to deliver - say a household 2 mile radius from the shop premises ?

[Draugen]

Hello again!

Guys, as I said earlier I cannot comment on Harwick itself because I don't know the area and have no involvement with it. You may well be right, but I'm simply trying to offer a bit of insight into why a franchisee may have chosen to open in your area.

Has the planning law changed that required takeaways to have A3/A5 planning? Or does Subway somehow not count as a takeaway? - Just curious.

Subway stores only require A1 planning due to being considered a "bakery".

[boxby]

I don't think anyone in subay HQ knows what a lorne sausage is