[SteveB]

Hi,

This might not be the right place for this post, but hoping I'll catch all you graphic designers out there who may be able to help.

Looking for some advise. As some of you may know, I'm a photographer, I'm use to working with colour and most of the issues around getting the right colour, but I'm new to litho printing and I'm having some troubles.

Firstly I do use a colour profiled system. I have an NEC 2080UXi monitor. Its profiled using MonacoOptixXR Pro. I print on Epson 9800 and HP9180 pigment printers for all my image work; the print process is profiled using MonacoEZ colour and an Epson 700 scanner.

Both of these printers produce Very good prints in comparison to the monitor image.

I use Adobe software throughout running on PC's.

I have just completed my first leaflet project for a customer. The customer is happy with the result but I am not.

As directed by the FSC printers, I prepared cmyk tiff files using the Euroscale V2 coated profile. The pdf proof I got back was good.

I have today received a copy of the leaflet from the customer as they were shipped direct.

My problem: they are too dark, distinct green issue and light browns have a magenta cast. In order to make my cmyk tiff file look on screen like the final print I need to adjust the colours as follows:

C:110%
M:110%
Y:82%
K: 128%

I am about to spend over £2000 printing 1000 calendars, I'm a perfectionist, and this difference is unacceptable and I cannot afford for this to go wrong - it will be the end of my business if it does!

I have yet to raise this with the printers (and I'm not saying who that is unless there is a good reason) as its Saturday, but before I do on Monday:

1) Is my expectation of Litho process too high?
2) If I can get good colours on HP/Epson, I should elsewhere?
3) The printer wont give me the ICC profile they use (they say its profiled to their monitors which is b**** the monitor has its own profile, the print/paper profile is an independent entity - am I wrong?
4) Am I missing something basic? (I really hope so)
5) Any other suggestions?

Help!

Steve

[PremierPDS]

Hi Steve

I usually get around this problem by letting the program determine the colours when printing a proof. I sometimes still have issues when it comes to blues turning purple etc but I know from the proof whether this is the case or not if I let the program determine the colour profile in CMYK mode. This gives me a nigh on perfect colour match and I've never had a complaint about colour problems doing things this way. Like you, I use a supplier and my products are shipped direct to the customer so it's vital you get this right first first time as it could end up costing you big time. My cousin prints on site and he had loads of trouble with this when he first started out especially with corporate colours for big league guys (like QVC). From what I can remember from when he first started up he sometimes outsourced work he couldn't do himself and getting a true colour match from other printers was a particular problem for him. He eventually asked for his suppliers print colour profile and this fixed the problem. As you know, viewing artwork on an RGB monitor will always be a problem though. I'll ask him some more about it but it may be tomorrow before I get to speak to him!

[PremierPDS]

Also, you might want to PM Ray in the mean time. He prints onsite too so him or one of his staff may be able to help you out in giving you some advice!

[SteveB]

Thanks for that, but that's what should be happening: here is a photo of the problem:



The image on the top left is my original cmyk file (euroscale coated V2)
The image top right is the pdf proof
The bottom right image is the actual print.
(colour targets for comparison)

now the pdf proof is slightly less saturated and a bit less yellow, not far off and a reflection of the nature of printing - that's difference I can live with.

The actual print, in my view, is way different. I know this method of comparison is not accurate, but that's way out.

Have been on the phone with the printers, but still waiting for a call from somebody in production.

Would be interested on what people think on the above comparison?

Thanks

Steve

[SteveB]

Just thought I'd update on how things have progressed.

I did get an email on the second day that it was being looked into, but emails are not like phone calls with a real person in my book, especially when something has gone wrong.

After 3 days of feeling like I was being completely ignored, phone calls in always resulting in leaving messages, people unavailable, I actually spoke to somebody in business development, who got me connected to the design studio. They agreed the colour was out and that it had been run too dark!

Smiles my side, now how to sort this out for a £2K calendar print run. Well, complete change from a feeling of being ignored, to being looked after.

Some epson proofs of the calendar cmyk files were done and arrived next day, still colour issues but stepping in the right direction. I sent them my own epson proofs and a set of HP proofs. (epson are a bit flat, HP are too saturated)

This week, a call from their production director to discuss the proofs and how to approach the job. I would love to see and approve the wet proofs from the line, but they are the other end of the county and I have to do this on a serious budget so that's not possible.

So, the agreement is to aim between the 2 sets of proofs I've sent, and I've described what colours on each page are important to me; production manager says he has a good idea of what I'm after and will do his best.

I know this is probably not the best way to go forward, but its the only financially viable way; having now spoken to people on the ground actually doing the print job, I'm allot happier about the whole thing - amazing what a few spoken words can do to change the whole feeling about a situation.

I'm looking forward to the results now. :-)

[Mike]

I dont know if this is related or usefull but consider looking at a Colorvision Spyder which will set up your monitors colours properly. II used it the other day and was frankly amazed at how wrong mine were

[Beneddie1112]

Does that thing stay on your screen? Could get in the way

[Mike]

no you just place it and it calibrates the settings, then you can set a reminder to recalibrate or ignore it and have your missus shout at you for wasting money on "useless" gadgets

[Beneddie1112]

Originally Posted by Mike

no you just place it and it calibrates the settings, then you can set a reminder to recalibrate or ignore it and have your missus shout at you for wasting money on "useless" gadgets

I have some of the most useless gadgets on earth.

[DPI Tech]

Hi Steve,

Hope your calender worked out to how you needed it.

The problem with a lot of Litho print firms these days is their colour epsom proofers are not calibrated to their printing press. there is an ISO standard in the pipe line witch will set out to define printing companies that are up to scratch with proper colour management systems. at the momment they are few and far between.

Just from seeing the pictures you provided with the comparison of epsom and final print the problem could even be as simple as just raising the levels of Yellow and tinkering with Magenta whilst the job is actually on press. modern Litho presses are very flexible in terms of udjusting colour levels whilst on press. For example if you take a cyan plate and a yellow plate both of 50%, by raising or lowering the levels of each ink you can produce a pale lime green to a punchy turquoise.

I can understand your frustration in the difference in colour it is miles away from the epsom and in my opinion obviously unacceptable.

It can be a mine field out there,

Good luck!