Sage software capable of ecommerce?

[Boswell]

There's a version of this in the Accounting section, as it may be more relevant.

We have an ancient version of Sage Line 50 FT, and there is an upgrade offer to V16 (Sage 50 Accounts Professional 2010) which expires on Monday. Until now we've never seen the point of upgrading.

We need a Sage product which gives simple ecommerce integration. Not easy to find anyone @ Sage who knows about this, and whether V16, or their Sage 50 Accounts Professional Online 2009 would be more suitable.

Is anyone clued up on tying a Sage system to ecommerce? We're looking at Sage Pay / Sage Pay Go as well.

Or a simpler accounting solution, tied to ecommerce, which avoids paying through the nose on Sage, which I've never found user-friendly.

[LOS Design UK]

There's a version of this in the Accounting section, as it may be more relevant.

We have an ancient version of Sage Line 50 FT, and there is an upgrade offer to V16 (Sage 50 Accounts Professional 2010) which expires on Monday. Until now we've never seen the point of upgrading.

We need a Sage product which gives simple ecommerce integration. Not easy to find anyone @ Sage who knows about this, and whether V16, or their Sage 50 Accounts Professional Online 2009 would be more suitable.

Is anyone clued up on tying a Sage system to ecommerce? We're looking at Sage Pay / Sage Pay Go as well.

Or a simpler accounting solution, tied to ecommerce, which avoids paying through the nose on Sage, which I've never found user-friendly.

Sage can easily be integrated into Actinic ecommerce stores and this is something I have done in the past for a few clients.

It can manage your stock control (basic levels) and there are one or two plugins that enable 1 click processing in the back office.

What flavour cart are you using/considering?

I am a partner with a well known PSP so can give you a direct response on the options if you need them

Regards
Daren

[Boswell]

Many thanks, Daren, that's really useful; we've got a couple of Actinic packs lying around, one unused, and, as you say, they can be linked to Sage, which I'd forgotten. Also, checking with Actinic, they can be upgraded to the latest version (9?) of their Business product (no affiliation).

What's interesting for us is that although we need a shopping cart for a small range of products, our priority is a simple but secure online c/card solution for invoices (see another thread) - a more sophisticated version of the PayPal invoicing system.

But Actinic Business could be a workaround for the invoice requirement, as it allows customers to have their own unique login (I'm reasonably sure) to the system and be presented with a one item shopping cart which could (perhaps) be tweaked to present an invoice format.

So customer orders a product/service by email, we prepare an invoice (pre-filled with their details) and we send them the login for payment. Slightly long-winded, but the software we're selling needs proof of their professional status before purchase (psychologists), and is reasonably high-value, so worth the time.

Poorly explained and not a clue if it's going to work, but I'll try their latest version online over the weekend and report back.

As a postscript the main reason we originally used Actinic was because each page (in html?) was exposed to Google which gave us excellent SEO. In those days (and maybe now?) many online product databases were invisible to search engines.

The link to Sage could be useful, but it may be overkill, and Sage is expensive to keep updated - we're still hanging in by our finger nails on Ver.10 as there hasn't been a good reason to update, and we don't need support.

[LOS Design UK]

Many thanks, Daren, that's really useful; we've got a couple of Actinic packs lying around, one unused, and, as you say, they can be linked to Sage, which I'd forgotten. Also, checking with Actinic, they can be upgraded to the latest version (9?) of their Business product (no affiliation).

What version have you got lying around?
Version 9 can indeed link as can 7 and 8
I HAVE NOT upgraded to 9 for many, many reasons! But cannot say in open forum!

What's interesting for us is that although we need a shopping cart for a small range of products, our priority is a simple but secure online c/card solution for invoices (see another thread) - a more sophisticated version of the PayPal invoicing system.

But Actinic Business could be a workaround for the invoice requirement, as it allows customers to have their own unique login (I'm reasonably sure) to the system and be presented with a one item shopping cart which could (perhaps) be tweaked to present an invoice format.

Is Paypal your only proposed PSP?

So customer orders a product/service by email, we prepare an invoice (pre-filled with their details) and we send them the login for payment. Slightly long-winded, but the software we're selling needs proof of their professional status before purchase (psychologists), and is reasonably high-value, so worth the time.

This is not exclusive to Actinic and most ecommerce carts can be configured to meet your requirement.

Poorly explained and not a clue if it's going to work, but I'll try their latest version online over the weekend and report back.

As a postscript the main reason we originally used Actinic was because each page (in html?) was exposed to Google which gave us excellent SEO. In those days (and maybe now?) many online product databases were invisible to search engines.

The link to Sage could be useful, but it may be overkill, and Sage is expensive to keep updated - we're still hanging in by our finger nails on Ver.10 as there hasn't been a good reason to update, and we don't need support.

Sorry mate, this is incorrect. Online stores driven by databases are as visible as Actinic (if not more so). It all depends on having a friendly URL set up, thats all.

When the big G crawls your site, they are parsing it as HTML. If you open up any page and view the source, this, in essence (I know there are text readers and slight variations but this is as a rule of thumb) is what they see. Not the

<? php functions >

Hope this helps mate. I have developed many carts over many years and I can say that Actinic may well be the best seller BUT it has its limitations in this shopper savy age of online retail. The biggest is the OFFLINE MS DATABASE.

Regards
Daren

[Boswell]

I've got Vers. 5 (online) and 6 (unused) of Business, plus an unused Business Plus (don't ask). Talking to an experienced Actinic user their comment was Ver.7 was fine, 8 was a disaster, 9.04 pretty awful, but the current 9.05 almost bug free.

No, PayPal isn't my proposed PSP. CreditCall looks OK so far @ around £8/month for up to 350 transactions / month, which covers us for both internet and MOTO - all on one merchant account. Some N. Americans ask for PayPal, but because of the commission rate we're reluctant, plus the casual chargeback regs acting against the seller.

I've now got Actinic 9 up and running for a 30-day trial, so will give it a go for invoicing - I still can't understand why no-one has produced a simple, secure invoicing system at a reasonable cost in the UK; it seems a no-brainer - half a day of programming and a clued-up guy could clean up - it's a multi-million market over the pond.

I'm sure you're right about the SEO, but running our ancient version of Actinic, every product was completely indexed and it just didn't happen with the database versions I used 7 years ago - totally invisible for other products I tried. Things have probably changed.

Sage updates expensive? A grand a year up in smoke for no reason - open to any advice why it's necessary.

I can't see it's just down to a friendly URL setup - it helps, but it's not the only factor in my own (limited) experience.

[LOS Design UK]

I can't see it's just down to a friendly URL setup - it helps, but it's not the only factor in my own (limited) experience.

My apologises for assuming we were reading from the same page of experience. You have misunderstood what I was saying, no worries, allow me to clarify. The aspect I was referring to was that using a FRIENDLY URL set up in PHP is advisable for both the bot and visitor. For example if you look at any php page not using it, you will see a huge url with loads of variables but the SEF one if shorter, easier to use and as it says on the tin is search engine friendly. I am not going into SEO topics but this is just one ingredient of a powerful soup that is SEO.

I've got Vers. 5 (online) and 6 (unused) of Business, plus an unused Business Plus (don't ask). Talking to an experienced Actinic user their comment was Ver.7 was fine, 8 was a disaster, 9.04 pretty awful, but the current 9.05 almost bug free

As a former Actinic Developer since Version 3, I do not agree with the above. Out of all the versions, 8.5.3. has proved time and time again to be the most stable. I have not (and will not) recommend version 9 to my clients as I still find bugs when working inside of it. Such as memory crash, database issues, ftp anomalies, snapshot crashes, missing variables (netquovars) from design imports and so on. Since the move to Version 9 I have moved from Actinic to more dynamic solutions as I feel this is the way the web is and will continue to move.

Sage updates expensive? A grand a year up in smoke for no reason - open to any advice why it's necessary.

100% agree. I still run using V12 L50 and see no reason to upgrade.

I've now got Actinic 9 up and running for a 30-day trial, so will give it a go for invoicing - I still can't understand why no-one has produced a simple, secure invoicing system at a reasonable cost in the UK; it seems a no-brainer - half a day of programming and a clued-up guy could clean up - it's a multi-million market over the pond.

Can you elaborate on this point please?

Out of interest (and this is the FIRST question I ask anyone looking to develop an online store), how many products are you planning to sell online?

Regards
Daren

[Boswell]

My 'apologises' for assuming we were reading from the same page of experience.

No need to apologise. I think I made my (novice) experience reasonably clear in my WordPress post which was wiped; I assume you read it before it was 'moderated'?

this is just one ingredient of a powerful soup that is SEO.

I think that's what I was trying to say.

As a former Actinic Developer since Version 3, I do not agree with the above.

I guess that's why this Forum is so valuable - different (constructive) views couldn't be more useful. Talking to a current Actinic Developer the feedback appears to be that Ver. 9 is now stable, and any queries are dealt with immediately by Actinic support. As a 'former' developer maybe that path isn't open to you?

Out of interest (and this is the FIRST question I ask anyone looking to develop an online store), how many products are you planning to sell online?

We've three potential applications, each a separate business: (1) 6-7,000 items (antiquarian and out-of-print books); (2) 12 software products (boxed with manuals) (3) holiday rental (4 properties, variable 'product' value).

Can you elaborate on this point please?

Yes, of course. All applications above, in theory, can work off a shopping cart, but often we need to invoice customers for payment via (a) bank transfer (b) cheque (c) credit/debit card. Invoices can be sent by pdf attachment, or fax or mail,, but the majority would pay by credit/debit card if we could provide a secure link.

This invoice system is available crudely via PayPal - one can have 10 editable templates (per PayPal account), tweakable for VAT, which can be sent to customers, offering the option of payment by (a), (b) or (c) above. The disadvantage with PayPal is (i) high commission (ii) the customer is encouraged (heavily) to become a PayPal account holder. It is possible to avoid this, and just use a credit card, but almost impossible to explain to customers when there are language problems.

So what we need is a simple invoice system, where the customer can be taken from the invoice (online) securely to our PSP (yet to be confirmed).

There are dozens of online invoice systems, and, in N. America many of these can be linked to PSPs, but I haven't found this in the UK without paying for an expensive and sophisticated system, which is not required.

[LOS Design UK]

[I]
As a former Actinic Developer since Version 3, I do not agree with the above.

I guess that's why this Forum is so valuable - different (constructive) views couldn't be more useful. Talking to a current Actinic Developer the feedback appears to be that Ver. 9 is now stable, and any queries are dealt with immediately by Actinic support. As a 'former' developer maybe that path isn't open to you?

I totally agree, one mans meat and all that. It is a question of personal preference.

But, the path is still open as I can develop any cart software if my clients desire and I am more than familiar with V9 and have worked on enough stores to know I do not like it hence me ending my relationship as a developing partner.

I am still struggling to see the issue regarding the invoicing and this is an example of how Actinic would deal with your invoices regardless of your PSP.

1. Customer clicks on checkout
2. Enters all details requested (name, addy etc)
3. The are presented with payment choices such as; credit card (via psp), debit card (via psp), BACs transfer, paypal, COD etc
4. They are then either forwarded to the PSP (nice and secure and makes sure you never have to worry about SSL or DCI Comp) if appropriate
5. If BACs or COD or ACCOUNT PAYMENT ETC are chosen, they are presented with a variant on your receipt to print or save
6. You connect and download said order details and act accordingly.

What is it you wish to do that differs to the above? Or am I missing something?

Regards
Daren

[Boswell]

What is it you wish to do that differs to the above? Or am I missing something?

Daren, you are being very patient.

1) With the antiquarian books etc. there isn't a problem; in theory, any shopping cart system could handle this.

2) With the software it's more involved as some items need prior confirmation before customers are permitted to purchase. This is assessment software for psychologists, and not for the open market. So, customer contacts us, we check they are OK to purchase, contact customer, and then perhaps they could login to their own account (as with Actinic Business?) and make their purchase. Alternatively, and because of low turnover (in customer numbers) easier to produce an invoice for secure payment.

Some software is more complicated with discounts for small schools, renewals, plus usual problems with EEC/non-EEC VAT. In theory this could be dealt with by shopping cart, but again, possible language problems.

3) But ignoring the above, our main problem is with the holiday rental business: renting weeks, part weeks, discounts for more than one apartment (property is a ski chalet with 3 apartments, but with 7 variable renting combinations, extras for phone/fax, bicycle rental etc. All possible to tweak on a shopping cart, but easier just to knock off an invoice, dealing with the customer's numerous requirements. Customer then receives invoice (sent by email or attached PDF) and wishes to pay securely by credit card.

A link from an online invoice to a PSP would be the simplest solution, rather than getting involved in faxed/phoned/emailed credit card details. This is what we get with PayPal, but, as mentioned above, the downsides with PayPal are numerous.

[LOS Design UK]

What is it you wish to do that differs to the above? Or am I missing something?

Daren, you are being very patient.

No problem, I like to assist where I can when time allows...so we can put point 1 to bed, let's see what we can do with 2 and 3.

For the purpose of this exercise, we shall be using Actinic BUT I am 100% certain it can be replicated in any cart of high standing.

2) With the software it's more involved as some items need prior confirmation before customers are permitted to purchase. This is assessment software for psychologists, and not for the open market. So, customer contacts us, we check they are OK to purchase, contact customer, and then perhaps they could login to their own account (as with Actinic Business?) and make their purchase. Alternatively, and because of low turnover (in customer numbers) easier to produce an invoice for secure payment.

Some software is more complicated with discounts for small schools, renewals, plus usual problems with EEC/non-EEC VAT. In theory this could be dealt with by shopping cart, but again, possible language problems.

Done something similar for a large client whom retails to the disability market and as such, some are VAT exempt and some aren't (in Actinic too, despite my comments ).

The solution to this within ACT V9 is to create a 'product' for the potential psych to purchase for £0.00 and in this, there is a form that gleams all the necessary information needed for you to assess suitability for purchase.

From this, you can allocate said client into a group that you have already created (which has associated products) and as such, bingo, requirements met and he can see all products he can purchase in your groups.

You send him his login details and voila...If he cannot purchase it, he cannot 'add to cart' simples...click click

(I know, you have to create a login, how very 1980's, I did warn you...)

3) But ignoring the above, our main problem is with the holiday rental business: renting weeks, part weeks, discounts for more than one apartment (property is a ski chalet with 3 apartments, but with 7 variable renting combinations, extras for phone/fax, bicycle rental etc. All possible to tweak on a shopping cart, but easier just to knock off an invoice, dealing with the customer's numerous requirements. Customer then receives invoice (sent by email or attached PDF) and wishes to pay securely by credit card.

A link from an online invoice to a PSP would be the simplest solution, rather than getting involved in faxed/phoned/emailed credit card details. This is what we get with PayPal, but, as mentioned above, the downsides with PayPal are numerous.

Bit trickier and would need more thought BUT, without a doubt, it can be done IMHO. BUT, ensure you are using a PSP with adequate IPN and Callback features....

But for now, I do hope this helps.

Regards
Daren