Help Save the Planet !!

[Alvin]

Forget B&Q's have a peep at some of our solar energy and wind generating kit prices.

http://windandsolarshop.co.uk/prices.shtml

Alvin

[Martin-Subbynet]

Hi Alvin,

Do you have any more images to go with the products? (about the space required for installation I'm trying to judge, and some idea of height etc - any images with a house in the picture or something for reference?) I'm mainly thinking about the Wind Power sources due to the power I need. Solar just won't cut it I think.

I use a *&^% load of power with servers running almost 18/7 365 days of the year. I have them in the house at the moment but when the door is open it sounds like a jumbo jet taking off lol...

I hope to house them all outside in one of those fancy decked out sheds.

I'd need a fairly large Wind Turbine tho, as a couple of servers pull almost 1200watts, the others around 800-900watts, and a whole rack anywhere from 8-9000 watts and I have two of these racks of gear - which I'd estimate is around 15-16000 watts. Without even mentioning the UPS, and AirCon unit!

I've really done as much as I can and 70% of the gear shuts down overnight until the morning - I done that about 8 months ago and have certainly noticed the difference in electricity bills.

I notice the largest Wind Turbine you do is the Proven 15, which roughly matches what I need if it was running 100%. I seriously doubt I'll be granted permission for two - I'll be lucky getting one, and like I say Solar just doesn't seem good enough but roof space I will have - not a lot tho.

I'm also not sure if the government is doing subsidies any more - I did apply before but was told the entire budget was already allocated. (Gone in less than a day they said!) And on top of that have to decide the most viable "Outlay-cost to Return" - as if 1kW is roughly £2,000, then I'm thinking 15kW is around £30,000? Which is too much really - its a shame you can't "upgrade" later.

Ultimately I'm looking to cut my bills by around 1 or 2 fifths.

So if you have any info I'd very much appreciate if you can fire it over to martin [at] subbynet.co.uk

Cheers

Martin

[Alvin]

Hi Alvin,

Do you have any more images to go with the products? (about the space required for installation I'm trying to judge, and some idea of height etc - any images with a house in the picture or something for reference?) I'm mainly thinking about the Wind Power sources due to the power I need. Solar just won't cut it I think.

I use a *&^% load of power with servers running almost 18/7 365 days of the year. I have them in the house at the moment but when the door is open it sounds like a jumbo jet taking off lol...

I hope to house them all outside in one of those fancy decked out sheds.

I'd need a fairly large Wind Turbine tho, as a couple of servers pull almost 1200watts, the others around 800-900watts, and a whole rack anywhere from 8-9000 watts and I have two of these racks of gear - which I'd estimate is around 15-16000 watts. Without even mentioning the UPS, and AirCon unit!

I've really done as much as I can and 70% of the gear shuts down overnight until the morning - I done that about 8 months ago and have certainly noticed the difference in electricity bills.

I notice the largest Wind Turbine you do is the Proven 15, which roughly matches what I need if it was running 100%. I seriously doubt I'll be granted permission for two - I'll be lucky getting one, and like I say Solar just doesn't seem good enough but roof space I will have - not a lot tho.

I'm also not sure if the government is doing subsidies any more - I did apply before but was told the entire budget was already allocated. (Gone in less than a day they said!) And on top of that have to decide the most viable "Outlay-cost to Return" - as if 1kW is roughly £2,000, then I'm thinking 15kW is around £30,000? Which is too much really - its a shame you can't "upgrade" later.

Ultimately I'm looking to cut my bills by around 1 or 2 fifths.

So if you have any info I'd very much appreciate if you can fire it over to martin [at] subbynet.co.uk

Cheers

Martin

Hi Martin Afraid I ain't no techno on this stuff,but if you call Chris on the freephone number 08000 789456 .He is the wind wizard.

I am the wrong sort of wind wizard for your needs.

Alvin

[Martin-Subbynet]

Hi Martin Afraid I ain't no techno on this stuff,but if you call Chris on the freephone number 08000 789456 .He is the wind wizard.

I am the wrong sort of wind wizard for your needs.

Alvin

lol.... Cheers mate, have noted it down and will give him a call in due course.

[andysv1k]

Hi Martin,

What sort of area do you live in?

If you are in the middle of a moor and raised above everything in your surroundings, you may have a shot with wind, although to cover your needs to power the servers, you will need to look much bigger than a proven 15 (thats its rated power, usually quoted at around 12m/s wind speed, would need to check the proven to confirm but you get the idea) most manufacturers accept that on average in the UK you could expect about 30% of the rated power averaged over a year, so you see that 15Kw is now somewhere between 4-5kw on average. thats a bloody big turbine too!

If you dont live in an area like that described, you can probably forget it, unless you like throwing money away. Unfortunately, most people in the country dont have a location suitable for wind power.

Andy.

[Martin-Subbynet]

Hi Martin,

What sort of area do you live in?

If you are in the middle of a moor and raised above everything in your surroundings, you may have a shot with wind, although to cover your needs to power the servers, you will need to look much bigger than a proven 15 (thats its rated power, usually quoted at around 12m/s wind speed, would need to check the proven to confirm but you get the idea) most manufacturers accept that on average in the UK you could expect about 30% of the rated power averaged over a year, so you see that 15Kw is now somewhere between 4-5kw on average. thats a bloody big turbine too!

If you dont live in an area like that described, you can probably forget it, unless you like throwing money away. Unfortunately, most people in the country dont have a location suitable for wind power.

Andy.

Hi Andy,

I really suspect you're right mate!

I'm in Luton, in the Chiltern Hills, so I know its not the best spot as we don't have any really large open flat area's which I would have thought are most suitable. My only advantage, and its a small one - is that I live on top of a hill, with my house backing onto a field and woods, so at least I'm not right down in the valley part of town.

I'm under no illusions that this thing would ultimately sit there doing bugger all for at least 6 months of the year, and although I don't need it to cover all my power needs, it would be nice to cover some of it.

I've looked into this a few times over the past 18 months, and after all the government rhetoric about Renewable Energy/Micro-Generation, the actual practical applications are tiny, and then again the geographic problems just make it so hard to implement.

Like like you mentioned, the size of these things is another issue - one which no doubt requires planning permission.... To get the power required to power just some of the basics in a home it seems you need a large turbine - anything else is an empty gesture. Going to all this expense to power a 60w light bulb isn't worth it.

Also - the PRICE of this gear is unbelievable, and certainly has gone through the roof since this green garbage came to the forefront of politics. My dad is in the Engineering sector, so I have some idea of the cost of various components/design and manufacture and I can only think the mark-up on this gear is very very good right now. (For what is ultimately a fancy dynamo with blades on a stick.) Basically the subsidies have been a license for companies to milk it.

What are the alternatives to Wind? Solar hasn't a hope in hell IMO for electricity generation - at least not on the levels required, I can't help but think its found a niche in Hot Water that it can't match elsewhere.

Here's a story I remember reading ages ago - http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006...enewableenergy

This man lives in a wood cabin in a Surrey Forest - he has 4 Wind Turbines, and Solar panels, and no doubt no TV, let alone a racks of IT equipment to think about... I thought we'd have some innovation since then but tbh it doesn't seem so.

I have also came up with my own plan for a Wind Power Generator. I haven't done the maths yet so god knows if it will work, but on paper it looks good to me, its small (or should I say "low profile" but same blade length as a conventional turbine), can be fitted to virtually every house, should be much cheaper and I doubt it would need planning permission or mess to much with the aesthetics. (Compared to a turbine or solar its much better)

In fact it seems so blindingly obvious but I can find no other example on the internet. (Maybe that means someone tried it and it doesn't work lol ) But who knows, I might see if a mock up can be made.

[Alvin]

Afraid as you have said its a horse and cart scenerio ,If more prople bought them the price would come down or if our useless goverment would give decent grants to get the ball rolling.

I would think a 10KW wind generator could be made for £300-400 but I believe at present prices you would be looking at 5k.

Its all down to demand,I can remember when 1MB of memory would cost you 2k.

The solar water heating systems are very efficient with the new vac tubes.

But not sure how you power a server with hot water.

Alvin

[andysv1k]

The solar water heating systems are very efficient with the new vac tubes.

But not sure how you power a server with hot water.

Alvin

Easy, a stirling engine!

(ok, maybe not the easiest thing to do)

Andy.

[andysv1k]

I dont believe its entirely a supply and demand thing with wind.

It certainly is with solar PV, but that also has its efficiency issues to overcome which doesnt help.

With wind turbines though, the technology is very accessible, its not rocket science to make them, you could even diy build one with off the shelf parts. the problem lies in two factors as i see it.

1) its just not practical in most places, if you compare two sites one with an average of 8m/s windspeed and one with an average of 4m/s wind speed, the latter will return four times less energy (maybe even more due to losses and efficiencies) than the first. Because of this cube law, it really has a big effect on how these things are sited. The large utility sized turbines are only installed after years of study and site testing because of the investment involved and also because they absolutely HAVE to work, if they dont, it would be disastrous for the companies involved and also the technology as a whole. (see B&Q aka Windsave for reference )

Ive read of small domestic turbines being installed that generate so little it would take 500 years just to pay back the cost of installation!

2) As a domestic customer wanting to install one, its just made too difficult for you. We have customers who have struggled for months and months to get planning approval, then only to be granted it on a temporary basis so they have to re-apply 6months later! no local authority wants to say "yes go ahead" in case they shoot themselves in the foot.

Put simpy, the paperwork involved is far too complicated and large. The grants are virtually non existent and puny if you DO actually get one
and no one in a position of authority (on a local level) knows anything about them, so wont back them.

Andy.